Discussion:
Microsoft Caves In To Commies
(too old to reply)
Derek Currie
2006-01-06 20:51:07 UTC
Permalink
<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/06/technology/06blog.html>

To be fair, Micro$oft are hardly the only company to kowtow to the
Chinese commies. Even the 'Do No Evil' company, Google, have been
kissing their red rectums by filtering out searches that lead to
'subversive' concepts such as freedom of speech, democracy, or to news
reports about the latest communist party atrocity within the borders of
China.

I find this kissing up to commies entirely sickening. It proves the
adage that corporations have no soul.

Anyway, check out the URL above for today's commie corporate kissup.
Microsoft Shuts Blog's Site After Complaints by Beijing
By DAVID BARBOZA and TOM ZELLER Jr.
Published: January 6, 2006
BEIJING, Jan. 5 - Microsoft has shut the blog site of a well-known Chinese
blogger who uses its MSN online service in China after he discussed a
high-profile newspaper strike that broke out here one week ago.
Some related blether from me about corporations and commies:

I have a friend who is currently working in China. He has found
surreptitious ways to communicate back to me what is going on over
there. Repression, state funded murder, and daily atrocities summarizes
up the situation.

Do you know how he finds out what has been going on inside China? He
accesses news over the net from outside the country. It is impossible to
find out about anything remotely controversial about China from inside
China. This means the people living down the road from the latest
village the communist party burned to the ground won't know about the
atrocity unless someone happens to walk over there and take a look.
Forget about learning such news from other side of the country!

There is literally no freedom of information or freedom of speech or
freedom of privacy or freedom in general, in China.

And what should any decent patriotic American do about it?! At the very
least they should refuse to play along and uphold human rights in any
activity in which they are involved with the Chinese. We Americans
founded our country on freedom, we spend billions spreading democracy
around the world, we demand it in our speech and protect it with our
weapons and soldiers. Of course Chinese citizens have the same
fundamental rights as we do!

But no, money rules the f*cked up world of humans. Why be ethical when
you can make a buck, right? What's the big deal about being a traitor to
the founding concepts upon which your own country was built? Fuck the
Chinese! Just give me their cheap labor and their goddamned money!

[Warning: Don't ever make me a CEO or President. I will make the world a
better place to live in, and you wouldn't want that.]

Shame on Micro$oft. I hope the Chinese bite them in the ass.

:-P
--
Fortune Magazine, 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease
of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.
<http://www.fortune.com/fortune/print/0,15935,1135298,00.html>
[Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'. He spearheaded
the movement to modernize computer software engineering in 1975]
Mojo
2006-01-06 21:02:02 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Derek Currie
Shame on Micro$oft. I hope the Chinese bite them in the ass.
:-P
Microsoft = evil.
C Lund
2006-01-07 10:27:52 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Derek Currie
I find this kissing up to commies entirely sickening. It proves the
adage that corporations have no soul.
FYI: China isn't a communist country. They're totalitarian, certainly,
but not communist.
--
C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
Derek Currie
2006-01-07 19:05:21 UTC
Permalink
OFF TOPIC!

But interesting...

:-D
Post by C Lund
FYI: China isn't a communist country. They're totalitarian, certainly,
but not communist.
Actually, I am hard pressed to think of a truly communist country that
ever existed. They have all gone totalitarian. It would take an expert
psychiatrist and an expert on social interactions to explain how two
diametrically opposed, left and right, methods of ruling people are
consistently joined into a combination that makes the best of the worst
of both systems.

Anyway, they idealistically call themselves communist, and they
certainly act like the 'communists' we have come to expect from history.

If you know of a communist state that actually worked, please let me
know. And no, I don't even consider the Lennonist version of the Soviet
Union to be truly communist.

:-D
--
Fortune Magazine, 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease
of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.
<http://www.fortune.com/fortune/print/0,15935,1135298,00.html>
[Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'. He spearheaded
the movement to modernize computer software engineering in 1975]
C Lund
2006-01-08 09:22:33 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Derek Currie
Post by C Lund
FYI: China isn't a communist country. They're totalitarian, certainly,
but not communist.
Actually, I am hard pressed to think of a truly communist country that
ever existed. They have all gone totalitarian.
Anyway, they idealistically call themselves communist, and they
certainly act like the 'communists' we have come to expect from history.
They may still call themselves communists, but they departed from
anything resembling a communist economy back in the eighties.
--
C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
Grandpa
2006-01-07 16:35:29 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Derek Currie
I have a friend who is currently working in China. He has found
surreptitious ways to communicate back to me what is going on over
there. Repression, state funded murder, and daily atrocities summarizes
up the situation.
He he, Derek. Are you sure you mean China? Sounds just like America.
Post by Derek Currie
There is literally no freedom of information or freedom of speech or
freedom of privacy or freedom in general, in China.
And what should any decent patriotic American do about it?
Why just Americans?
Post by Derek Currie
We Americans
Oh of course. you are one. Please don't be one of those who think the
world begins and ends at America's borders.
Post by Derek Currie
founded our country on freedom, we spend billions spreading democracy
around the world, we demand it in our speech and protect it with our
weapons and soldiers. Of course Chinese citizens have the same
fundamental rights as we do!
Derek, I just got done defending you in an earlier post. Now I'm taking
issue with you.

In the opinion of many, America spends far too _much_ time, money and
effort spreading its vision of "rightness" around the world. Some of us
would beg you please to stop it.

For sure, no one I know or read believes that your weapons and soldiers
are "protecting" freedom. They are projecting America's influence over
the rest of the world.

I hate China's policies and attitudes as much as do you and I protest
them in my own way but I sure feel a similar antipathy to America's
hegemonic bullshit.

Washington criticises countries it thinks are too conservative and
invests an equal amount of energy criticising countries it thinks are
too liberal. Funny how America seems to be the only place to get it
just right.

Freedom in America? I laugh. There is a general shortage of personal
freeedoms in America (though, I'll grant you, there are more than in
China). Americans would have a heart attack to see how much more free
Australia is. Australians feel the same about New Zealand who, in turn,
would faint at the laissez-faire liberalism in Western Europe. All are
outdone by Russia where there is more freedom than Americans can ever
dream about.

Too many Americans are willing to permit others to have only those
freedoms of which they personally approve. The real test of a free
society is a willingness to permit others to go about their lives doing
things of which you or I might personally disapprove.

Let me take an example strictly at random. How about...oh, I don't
know, the age of consent or the drinking age, two areas that affect the
everyday lives of millions of people.

Isn't the drinking age in many states of America 21? I think I'm right
but am prepared to be shot down. Why is alcohol such a Big Deal to
Americans? Many many countries set the drinking age at 18 yet the sky
does not fall in. In many countries it's lower and in many that I visit
there is no minimum.

Isn't the age of consent in many states in America 18? Why is sex such
a Big Deal to Americans? Many many countries set the age at 16 or 14
and the sky has still not fallen in. In some countries it's lower and
in a few that I visit, there is no enforcement in that area at all. I
have a Moscow friend in his forties. He is in a permanent relationship
with a girl who was 12 when they came together. The relationship has
the active support of her mother, his mother and all of the other
adults around them. Why? Because they are HAPPY! So why not? America
is, at least on paper, willing to give the same importance to the
pursuit of happiness as it gives to the liberties you cherish.

Prostitution is legal in many many countries. Why is it illegal in many
parts of America? Limitation of personal freedoms is an obvious reason,
along with denial of the pursuit of happiness for some people.

Holy smoke, Derek, i even have friends in America who have heart
attacks if a kid drinks a cup of coffee!

And wow if I'm not sick of having that self-inflated asshole, former
deputy sheriff ‹ I mercifully have forgotten his name but he has a
drawl so thick, even Dan Rather would have difficulty navigating
through it ‹ who shows his police videos on television from time to
time. How he hates speeders!

Maybe his name is John Bunnell.

I have driven many tens of thousands of kilometres on Germany's
autobahns, routinely over 200 km/h. To the horror of many an American
law enforcement rote-reciter, it is safe. Speed is not the killer,
stupidity is the danger. and there sure are not many stupid drivers in
Germany. There is just too much invested in _real_ driver training.

(Of course, they don't drive American cars. That is surely another
factor).

To argue against what I just said ‹ in Moscow, it is common for people
to drive on long, straight city roads in heavy traffic, with many
pedestrians and even police nearby, at speeds well over 100 km/h. 160
km/h is not rare. And many of those drivers _are_ stupid. Bad, even
dangerous drivers do this and get away with it. And they do not have
many accidents either, because _everyone_ is driving fast. Red lights?
Who cares about them? The police don't give a shit, either. As long as
you have your insurance papers in the car...
Post by Derek Currie
But no, money rules the f*cked up world of humans. Why be ethical when
you can make a buck, right? What's the big deal about being a traitor to
the founding concepts upon which your own country was built? Fuck the
Chinese! Just give me their cheap labor and their goddamned money!
[Warning: Don't ever make me a CEO or President. I will make the world a
better place to live in, and you wouldn't want that.]
Shame on Micro$oft. I hope the Chinese bite them in the ass.
Why wait for the Chinese to do it? If every Mac user converted one
Windoze user over from the Dark Side, wouldn't Microsloth collapse
under the weight of its own bullshit?
Derek Currie
2006-01-07 17:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grandpa
He he, Derek. Are you sure you mean China? Sounds just like America.
Oops. Well, to be more accurate, it sounds like the 'Vulcans':

:-D

===========
Before He Was Lobotomized By The 'Vulcans':
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for
the President to explain to us what the exit strategy
is." --Texas Governor George W. Bush, April 9, 1999, on
the US intervention in Kosovo.
-->Rise of the Vulcans : The History of Bush's War Cabinet
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670032999/103-3289693-7220622?v=glance
&n=283155&v=glance>
--
Fortune Magazine, 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease
of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.
<http://www.fortune.com/fortune/print/0,15935,1135298,00.html>
[Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'. He spearheaded
the movement to modernize computer software engineering in 1975]
Derek Currie
2006-01-07 18:53:57 UTC
Permalink
Warning! The discussion ahead is entirely OFF TOPIC! Abandon all hope of
finding anything related to Mac Advocacy here. But you might enjoy
reading it anyway.

:-Derek
Post by Grandpa
Post by Derek Currie
founded our country on freedom, we spend billions spreading democracy
around the world, we demand it in our speech and protect it with our
weapons and soldiers. Of course Chinese citizens have the same
fundamental rights as we do!
Derek, I just got done defending you in an earlier post. Now I'm taking
issue with you.
In the opinion of many, America spends far too _much_ time, money and
effort spreading its vision of "rightness" around the world. Some of us
would beg you please to stop it.
Oh dear. This is going to turn into a diatribe. I hope folks don't mind.
I do my best not to be boring.


I was kind of surprised to see what I had wrought in my note. It was not
my intention to justify what our 'Vulcan'-ized USA is doing in the
world.

(The 'Vulcans' are the right wing US extremists who invented the war
with Iraq in 1998. You can read their drivel on the net. They called for
a national catastrophe in order to have an excuse to invade Iraq. First
they infected the White House in 2000. Then 9/11 magically fell into
their laps. All they had to do was lie and say Saddam Hussein had
something to do with it, and they were ready to go! Now thousands of
decent US soldiers, such as my own brother, and millions of tax payers
pay the price for this whim. You can also read about the Vulcans in:
--> Rise of the Vulcans : The History of Bush's War Cabinet
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670032999/103-3289693-7220622?v=glance
&n=283155&v=glance>).

My intent was to raise the flag and let it wave, hand over heart, saying
the pledge of allegiance, in God we trust, etc., in the style to which
most Americans are accustomed. I wanted a sharp edged contrast with the
scum behavior of corporations conspiring with the Chinese communists.

If you think governments are the only f*cking evil things ruining our
world, think again dude. Go rent the excellent Canadian documentary
entitled 'THE CORPORATION' and weep and what they have done and continue
to do to destroy humanity and the Earth. As I said, corporations have no
soul.
Post by Grandpa
For sure, no one I know or read believes that your weapons and soldiers
are "protecting" freedom. They are projecting America's influence over
the rest of the world.
Absolutely! How I wish I had folks like you to chat with over here. If
there is one thing lacking in the US it is PERSPECTIVE. I grew up being
cross-cultural, so I've always looked at the US from an off-shore point
of view. The insularity of the US is an illness.
Post by Grandpa
I hate China's policies and attitudes as much as do you and I protest
them in my own way but I sure feel a similar antipathy to America's
hegemonic bullshit.
Good.

But let me toss this one at you: Sick and insane as the USA is,
particularly now under the rule of the 'Vulcans', I would much prefer
living here than in the hell that is China. To help maintain that hell,
to self-justify one's actions in bolstering that hell, is far more
depraved.
Post by Grandpa
Washington criticises countries it thinks are too conservative and
invests an equal amount of energy criticising countries it thinks are
too liberal. Funny how America seems to be the only place to get it
just right.
Excellent insight!
Post by Grandpa
Freedom in America? I laugh. There is a general shortage of personal
freeedoms in America (though, I'll grant you, there are more than in
China). Americans would have a heart attack to see how much more free
Australia is.
Careful there! Australia just enacted even more draconian restrictions
of civil liberties than the 'Vulcan' inspired, and absurdly named
'Patriot Act'. The Oz government have already begun rounding up
'terrorists', be they truly terrorists or not.

But indeed, horrific decimation of civil liberties is going on in the
US. Check out this example below. The site is run by my good friend
Katherine. It is regarding the railroading of a Muslim physician here in
Syracuse, NY, where I live. He started a charity to help the needy in
Iraq during the US/UN embargoes, and was given 20 years in jail for it.
Actually he pulled some substantial white collar crimes, but nothing
worth even half of 20 years. I digitized the audio and video files
linked at the site:
<http://www.dhafirtrial.net/>
Post by Grandpa
Australians feel the same about New Zealand who, in turn,
would faint at the laissez-faire liberalism in Western Europe. All are
outdone by Russia where there is more freedom than Americans can ever
dream about.
OK, at that point I have to say 'Give me a break.' Any Joe can read
about what goes on in Russia. Corruption rules there as much if not more
than anywhere else in the world. Does Putin actually allow true freedom
of the press, for example? Of course not. I wish you were kidding me. I
am sad you are not.
Post by Grandpa
Too many Americans are willing to permit others to have only those
freedoms of which they personally approve. The real test of a free
society is a willingness to permit others to go about their lives doing
things of which you or I might personally disapprove.
Yes and no. Here is my personal point of view. It is sometimes called
'Libertarian' but I don't quite fit in that box. I am what I call a
'Positive Anarchist.' I believe people should be able to so whatever
they want, as long as they take full responsibility for the results of
their actions.

This is in contrast to the 'Negative Anarchist' who does not take
responsibility for their actions.

Sad to say, human beings as a whole have a very difficult time taking
responsibility for anything. Even having been brought up to be
responsible, some say TOO responsible (I have eldest brother syndrome),
I am constantly confronted with my difficulties with taking consistent
responsibility for my life.

Therefore, I put up with laws as guideposts. I seek out thought systems
that help me understand what is real, such as Zen Buddhism and General
Semantics, (Bless Noam Chomsky!), and look for tools and paths to help
me become more thoughtful and responsible, such as the teachings of
Yeshua (aka Jesus in Greek).
Post by Grandpa
Let me take an example strictly at random. How about...oh, I don't
know, the age of consent or the drinking age, two areas that affect the
everyday lives of millions of people.
Good one!
Post by Grandpa
Isn't the drinking age in many states of America 21? I think I'm right
but am prepared to be shot down.
You are correct sir! It is federally mandated!
Post by Grandpa
Why is alcohol such a Big Deal to
Americans? Many many countries set the drinking age at 18 yet the sky
does not fall in. In many countries it's lower and in many that I visit
there is no minimum.
I want to live where there is no minimum. People can be brought up to
respect any drug and learn how to use it properly, safely and
responsibly. My parents gave me wine before or during dinner once I hit
13. I never understood what was the big deal. I always thought the kids
who made a big deal about getting plastered out of their minds, before
or after drinking age, were total assholes. They drank to be bad. Why?
Just enjoy it. It is not some juvenile tool for rebellion. But thanks to
the 'taboo' status of drinking for kids, as with sex, rebellious people
deliberately abuse it.

My little branch of the family happily has no addiction problems at all.
But I had an alcoholic uncle, two alcoholic cousins, and alcoholic aunt.
These are honest, serious problems for people to not hide from, but to
address openly so as to help and alleviate the illness.
Post by Grandpa
Isn't the age of consent in many states in America 18?
It is up to each state, but that is the norm.
Post by Grandpa
Why is sex such
a Big Deal to Americans? Many many countries set the age at 16 or 14
and the sky has still not fallen in. In some countries it's lower and
in a few that I visit, there is no enforcement in that area at all. I
have a Moscow friend in his forties. He is in a permanent relationship
with a girl who was 12 when they came together.
I am happy to address the subject of sex between consulting adults. I
believe adulthood begins at the point when someone becomes capable of
making a child. I despise the culture I am in where adolescence is a
concept substituted for the beginning of what is real adulthood.
Extended adolescence, aka delayed adulthood, is I believe detrimental to
the mind, body and spirit.

But mental maturity is another subject. i seriously question the
maturity of either your 40 year old or your 12 year old to get into such
a relationship. At least on the surface I consider it unlikely to be a
healthy, sane and mature relationship. More likely the 12 year old is
being coerced into something she cannot yet understand, and the 40 year
old is too immature to take adult responsibility for his own sex life.
But I could be wrong.
Post by Grandpa
The relationship has
the active support of her mother, his mother and all of the other
adults around them. Why? Because they are HAPPY! So why not?
Before we divert to another subject let me just say that I think young
adults should become sexually active, if that is what they want and they
know exactly what they are doing. This requires training from parents
and other mentors about mature and healthy relationships, sex, safety
from STDs, and safety from pregnancy for heterosexual couples. I believe
it is important to discuss the issue of pregnancy at the point when it
becomes a possibility, meaning right at the point when the couple become
sexually active. That way there is no nonsense about whether to keep it
or abort it. Each person knows what the other person wants. If they
change their mind later, find. But they have solid ground upon which to
work if the pregnancy occurs.
Post by Grandpa
America
is, at least on paper, willing to give the same importance to the
pursuit of happiness as it gives to the liberties you cherish.
Yeah, but keep in mind that here in the US there is at least the
illusion that our morality is founded upon that of the Puritans. That
grew into the Baptists, and the Pentecostals, and the Mormons, and the
Scienterrificologists, and off into the stratosphere of bizarreness. And
in reality there was plenty of business greed involved in the founding
and development of this country. But at least on the face of the
country, it is Puritan based. Therefore, the 'liberties' allowed fit
within some version of what is expected of a Christian.
Post by Grandpa
Prostitution is legal in many many countries. Why is it illegal in many
parts of America? Limitation of personal freedoms is an obvious reason,
along with denial of the pursuit of happiness for some people.
This is another issue that is left to the states to decide. It is legal
in Nevada, where it is well regulated and apparently very sane compared
to states where it is a crime. I have read about how it is handled in
the Netherlands, and it sounds much more civilized. I absolutely HATE
having some hag of a prostitute, obviously ill and high on coke, coming
up to me outside MY HOUSE (!) asking if I want a 'girl friend.' Yeah
right. (1) Clean her up, including her life. (2) Get her off in a
district designed for prostitution, not my neighborhood dammit!

In any case, I have never been involved with a prostitute, never even
thought about it. They repel me. I believe it is demeaning to both the
whore and the John, unhealthy to body, mind and spirit. Get a real
girlfriend or boyfriend, (Personally I am not picky which), and have a
real relationship. Share with each other who you are in all ways, not
just some body secretions! I cannot deal with the shallowness of many
people's lives. Prostitution is an ultimate low point in shallowness to
me.

Meanwhile, I believe outlawing it is pointless. It always happened,
apparently from back when we were apes, and it sadly always will. Just
keep it as sanely and cleanly done as possible, out of my sight and out
of my mind please.
Post by Grandpa
Holy smoke, Derek, i even have friends in America who have heart
attacks if a kid drinks a cup of coffee!
Odd. Coffee is good for you. The only down point about coffee is if your
kid is prone to going hyper. I have a little 4 year old nephew who loves
to go off on tirades when he gets the chance. I think of him as having a
fun little velociraptor that wants to come out and attack things. I
think that is great and I love to play with him in that mode. But you
definitely don't want that day and night. I know giving the kid sugar is
a great way to drive him wild. I image coffee would provide a similar
effect. I would never give it to him. His elder sister on the other
hand, who is 9, could handle it no problem!
Post by Grandpa
And wow if I'm not sick of having that self-inflated asshole, former
deputy sheriff ‹ I mercifully have forgotten his name but he has a
drawl so thick, even Dan Rather would have difficulty navigating
through it ‹ who shows his police videos on television from time to
time. How he hates speeders!
Maybe his name is John Bunnell.
I don't know him, sorry.
Post by Grandpa
I have driven many tens of thousands of kilometres on Germany's
autobahns, routinely over 200 km/h. To the horror of many an American
law enforcement rote-reciter, it is safe. Speed is not the killer,
stupidity is the danger.
Beware of wetware, I always say.
Post by Grandpa
and there sure are not many stupid drivers in
Germany. There is just too much invested in _real_ driver training.
I drove the autobahn while I was visiting friends in Berlin and
Copenhagen. There were nothing! I had a good drive! I was very happy to
see that most of the cars were fuel efficient. America has been far too
much in love with gas guzzling behemoth cars. They suffer for it now,
more and more this past year.
Post by Grandpa
(Of course, they don't drive American cars. That is surely another
factor).
My car: Toyota Corolla. 40 miles to the gallon on the highway. But that
is not good enough. Next car will be even more fuel efficient. I wish I
could get off gasoline entirely.
Post by Grandpa
To argue against what I just said ‹ in Moscow, it is common for people
to drive on long, straight city roads in heavy traffic, with many
pedestrians and even police nearby, at speeds well over 100 km/h. 160
km/h is not rare. And many of those drivers _are_ stupid. Bad, even
dangerous drivers do this and get away with it. And they do not have
many accidents either, because _everyone_ is driving fast. Red lights?
Who cares about them? The police don't give a shit, either. As long as
you have your insurance papers in the car...
See, I would HATE that. It is tripping into the zone of chaos within my
reference world. I live in a very mellow and friendly city. And yet, I
still have to watch out for idiot drivers. Yeah, it's fun to have an
excuse to lay on the horn at some dolt, but it is not good for the body
and brain to get stressed out. Moscow would most certainly stress me
out. Boston driving stresses me out. Berlin driving was no problem. I
drove a lot around Britain and have no complaints (except for the super
thin country roads where someone could come around the corner and crush
you at any moment, on my GAWD! LOL!)
Post by Grandpa
Post by Derek Currie
But no, money rules the f*cked up world of humans. Why be ethical when
you can make a buck, right? What's the big deal about being a traitor to
the founding concepts upon which your own country was built? Fuck the
Chinese! Just give me their cheap labor and their goddamned money!
[Warning: Don't ever make me a CEO or President. I will make the world a
better place to live in, and you wouldn't want that.]
Shame on Micro$oft. I hope the Chinese bite them in the ass.
Why wait for the Chinese to do it? If every Mac user converted one
Windoze user over from the Dark Side, wouldn't Microsloth collapse
under the weight of its own bullshit?
Well, I would hope so. But like it or not the business communities live,
eat and sleep bullshit. They think sadomasochism is a normal part of
living, so suffering under Windows and the lack of consistent standards
in PC architecture is accepted.

I don't know how to cure such illnesses. As counter intuitive this
sounds, it is surprisingly difficult to show someone the greener grass
on the other side of the fence and get them to walk through the gate (or
Gates as the case may be) with you. I have heard a zillion excuses, many
utterly ridiculous, many practical. I could write an essay on that topic
alone.

But I will simply say I do my best. I present all the relevant facts, I
bring humor into the discussion, I ignore the destroyers who want to
dominate, I demonstrate how I know both sides of the fence very well
from very long ago. I let folks know that being free of the lousier
technology means I am happier! People have to make up their own mind. I
can't force them, and I have better things to do than lead them. I just
try to teach them and let them learn. Some learn and thank me, some
don't get it and suffer. I feel sorry for them, but it's their life, not
mine.

I suppose that is my approach to dealing with the Chinese as well!


Nice how I pulled it all together in that last line, huh!

Nice chatting with you Grandpa. I hope we can again.

Oh BTW: Want to see resistance to the 'Vulcans' at work? Want to see a
sane presentation of an all too common situation in the world? Want to
see a good movie? Go see 'Brokeback Mountain.' Witness it receiving
world acclaim, particularly here in the USA. I am amazed. Beautifully
done, profoundly sad, speaks volumes about the effect of intolerance
around and inside one's self.


Share and Enjoy!

:-Derek
--
Fortune Magazine, 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease
of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.
<http://www.fortune.com/fortune/print/0,15935,1135298,00.html>
[Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'. He spearheaded
the movement to modernize computer software engineering in 1975]
TheLetterK
2006-01-07 23:48:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mojo
In article
Post by Derek Currie
I have a friend who is currently working in China. He has found
surreptitious ways to communicate back to me what is going on over
there. Repression, state funded murder, and daily atrocities summarizes
up the situation.
He he, Derek. Are you sure you mean China? Sounds just like America.
Post by Derek Currie
There is literally no freedom of information or freedom of speech or
freedom of privacy or freedom in general, in China.
And what should any decent patriotic American do about it?
Why just Americans?
Post by Derek Currie
We Americans
Oh of course. you are one. Please don't be one of those who think the
world begins and ends at America's borders.
Post by Derek Currie
founded our country on freedom, we spend billions spreading democracy
around the world, we demand it in our speech and protect it with our
weapons and soldiers. Of course Chinese citizens have the same
fundamental rights as we do!
Derek, I just got done defending you in an earlier post. Now I'm taking
issue with you.
In the opinion of many, America spends far too _much_ time, money and
effort spreading its vision of "rightness" around the world. Some of us
would beg you please to stop it.
Many Americans are trying to get our government to stop as well.
Post by Mojo
For sure, no one I know or read believes that your weapons and soldiers
are "protecting" freedom. They are projecting America's influence over
the rest of the world.
We don't even like freedom in our own country. Speak against the
government? Get criticized as a traitor. Certainly better than China,
but the US not exactly a 'freedom loving' country either.
Post by Mojo
I hate China's policies and attitudes as much as do you and I protest
them in my own way but I sure feel a similar antipathy to America's
hegemonic bullshit.
Shouldn't blame that on the people in this country, just the vocal
minorities with money.
Post by Mojo
Washington criticises countries it thinks are too conservative and
invests an equal amount of energy criticising countries it thinks are
too liberal. Funny how America seems to be the only place to get it
just right.
Freedom in America? I laugh. There is a general shortage of personal
freeedoms in America (though, I'll grant you, there are more than in
China). Americans would have a heart attack to see how much more free
Australia is. Australians feel the same about New Zealand who, in turn,
would faint at the laissez-faire liberalism in Western Europe. All are
outdone by Russia where there is more freedom than Americans can ever
dream about.
Are you kidding me? I'm an American, and I consider our government to be
well on it's way to facism.
Post by Mojo
Too many Americans are willing to permit others to have only those
freedoms of which they personally approve. The real test of a free
society is a willingness to permit others to go about their lives doing
things of which you or I might personally disapprove.
Let me take an example strictly at random. How about...oh, I don't
know, the age of consent or the drinking age, two areas that affect the
everyday lives of millions of people.
Isn't the drinking age in many states of America 21?
All states, IIRC. Might even be a federal law.
Post by Mojo
I think I'm right
but am prepared to be shot down. Why is alcohol such a Big Deal to
Americans?
The Religious nutjobs. Jesusland is an apt description of many parts of
the country (this state, for example, legally prohibits athiests from
holding public office. Though this does have one advantage--we can't be
called for jury duty, by the same law.)
Post by Mojo
Many many countries set the drinking age at 18 yet the sky
does not fall in. In many countries it's lower and in many that I visit
there is no minimum.
And there are plenty of Americans who consider this exact same law to be
absurd. I'm one in favor of *no* 'legal limit'. Even if we do decide to
set a limit, it should be lower than the age of majority. If I'm old
enough to die for my country, I should also be old enough to have a beer.
Post by Mojo
Isn't the age of consent in many states in America 18? Why is sex such
a Big Deal to Americans?
You are legally considered an adult at 18, in the US. Theoretically,
consentual sex beween adults is not regulated. But you can't give
consent until you're of legal age--without approval from your parents
anyway.
Post by Mojo
Many many countries set the age at 16 or 14
and the sky has still not fallen in. In some countries it's lower and
in a few that I visit, there is no enforcement in that area at all. I
have a Moscow friend in his forties. He is in a permanent relationship
with a girl who was 12 when they came together. The relationship has
the active support of her mother, his mother and all of the other
adults around them. Why? Because they are HAPPY! So why not? America
is, at least on paper, willing to give the same importance to the
pursuit of happiness as it gives to the liberties you cherish.
The constituion provides no protection for the 'right to be happy'.
Post by Mojo
Prostitution is legal in many many countries. Why is it illegal in many
parts of America? Limitation of personal freedoms is an obvious reason,
along with denial of the pursuit of happiness for some people.
Religious nutcases again.
Post by Mojo
Holy smoke, Derek, i even have friends in America who have heart
attacks if a kid drinks a cup of coffee!
And wow if I'm not sick of having that self-inflated asshole, former
deputy sheriff ‹ I mercifully have forgotten his name but he has a
drawl so thick, even Dan Rather would have difficulty navigating
through it ‹ who shows his police videos on television from time to
time. How he hates speeders!
Maybe his name is John Bunnell.
I have driven many tens of thousands of kilometres on Germany's
autobahns, routinely over 200 km/h. To the horror of many an American
law enforcement rote-reciter, it is safe. Speed is not the killer,
stupidity is the danger. and there sure are not many stupid drivers in
Germany. There is just too much invested in _real_ driver training.
Which is impractical in the US. Way more people, and a greater need for
personal transportation.
Post by Mojo
(Of course, they don't drive American cars. That is surely another
factor).
This is, of course, complete BS.
Post by Mojo
To argue against what I just said ‹ in Moscow, it is common for people
to drive on long, straight city roads in heavy traffic, with many
pedestrians and even police nearby, at speeds well over 100 km/h. 160
km/h is not rare. And many of those drivers _are_ stupid. Bad, even
dangerous drivers do this and get away with it. And they do not have
many accidents either, because _everyone_ is driving fast. Red lights?
Who cares about them? The police don't give a shit, either. As long as
you have your insurance papers in the car...
Post by Derek Currie
But no, money rules the f*cked up world of humans. Why be ethical when
you can make a buck, right? What's the big deal about being a traitor to
the founding concepts upon which your own country was built? Fuck the
Chinese! Just give me their cheap labor and their goddamned money!
[Warning: Don't ever make me a CEO or President. I will make the world a
better place to live in, and you wouldn't want that.]
Shame on Micro$oft. I hope the Chinese bite them in the ass.
Why wait for the Chinese to do it? If every Mac user converted one
Windoze user over from the Dark Side, wouldn't Microsloth collapse
under the weight of its own bullshit?
No, you would need every Mac user to convert 5 Windows users, at least.
C Lund
2006-01-07 19:12:19 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Derek Currie
And what should any decent patriotic American do about it?! At the very
least they should refuse to play along and uphold human rights in any
activity in which they are involved with the Chinese. We Americans
founded our country on freedom, we spend billions spreading democracy
around the world,
No, the US does not spread democracy. US Americans like to *think* the
US is spreading democracy (and human rights) around the world, but the
US isn't, and with a few exceptions, never has.
--
C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
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